Re: La Jérusalem céleste

**-Ren-** Dim 20 Jan - 19:39

-Ahouva- a écrit:Des décennies avant l'Apocalypse, l'épître aux Hébreux parle de la Jérusalem céleste

Merci de ton intervention, je connais encore mal l'épître aux Hébreux :jap:

Pourrais-tu nous en dire plus sur les pseudépigraphes juifs ?

**-Ahouva-** Dim 20 Jan - 19:55

-Ren- a écrit:je connais encore mal l'épître aux Hébreux

Je pense que lorsque tu la connaîtras mieux, tu l'aimeras beaucoup

-Ren- a écrit:Pourrais-tu nous en dire plus sur les pseudépigraphes juifs ?

L'Apocalypse syriaque de Baruch - postérieure à l'épître aux Hébreux - parle de la Jérusalem céleste, par exemple. Je ne trouve pas de traduction française en ligne mais une traduction anglaise donne Dost you think that this is that city of which I said: "On the palms of My hands have I graven you"? This building now built in your midst is not that which is revealed with Me, that which prepared beforehand here from the time when I took counsel to make Paradise, and showed Adam before he sinned, but when he transgressed the commandment it was removed from him, as also Paradise. And after these things I showed it to My servant Abraham by night among the portions of the victims. And again also I showed it to Moses on Mount Sinai when I showed to the likeness of the tabernacle and all its vessels. And now, behold, it is preserved with Me, as Paradise. Go, therefore, and do as I command you.' (4,2-7)

:arrow:

http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/pseudepigrapha/2Baruch.html

**-Ren-** Dim 20 Jan - 20:01

-Ahouva- a écrit:Je pense que lorsque tu la connaîtras mieux, tu l'aimeras beaucoup

Pour l'instant j'ai encore beaucoup de mal à "entrer" dedans... Je préfère la première épître de Jean (indétrônable :h:

) et celle de Jacques (quand j'ai besoin d'un coup de pied au... :fff:

)

**-Ahouva-** Dim 20 Jan - 20:02

La Jérusalem céleste se retrouve également en 1 Hénoch - antérieur à l'épître aux Hébreux - pour lequel je ne trouve pas non plus de traduction française en ligne : And I stood up to see till they folded up that old house; and carried off all the pillars, and all the beams and ornaments of the house were at the same time folded up with it, and they carried it off and laid it in a place in the south of the land. And I saw till the Lord of the sheep brought a new house greater and loftier than that first, and set it up in the place of the first which had beer folded up: all its pillars were new, and its ornaments were new and larger than those of the first, the old one which He had taken away, and all the sheep were within it. And I saw all the sheep which had been left, and all the beasts on the earth, and all the birds of the heaven, falling down and doing homage to those sheep and making petition to and obeying them in every thing. And thereafter those three who were clothed in white and had seized me by my hand [who had taken me up before], and the hand of that ram also seizing hold of me, they took me up and set me down in the midst of those sheep before the judgement took place. And those sheep were all white, and their wool was abundant and clean. And all that had been destroyed and dispersed, and all the beasts of the field, and all the birds of the heaven, assembled in that house, and the Lord of the sheep rejoiced with great joy because they were all good and had returned to His house. And I saw till they laid down that sword, which had been given to the sheep, and they brought it back into the house, and it was sealed before the presence of the Lord, and all the sheep were invited into that house, but it held them not. And the eyes of them all were opened, and they saw the good, and there was not one among them that did not see. And I saw that that house was large and broad and very full. And I saw that a white bull was born, with large horns and all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air feared him and made petition to him all the time. And I saw till all their generations were transformed, and they all became white bulls; and the first among them became a lamb, and that lamb became a great animal and had great black horns on its head; and the Lord of the sheep rejoiced over it and over all the oxen. (90,28-38)

:arrow:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/boe093.htm

**-Ahouva-** Dim 20 Jan - 20:15

-Ren- a écrit:Pour l'instant j'ai encore beaucoup de mal à "entrer" dedans...

Jésus > Anges > Moïse > Grand Prêtre > Lévites + nouvelle alliance > ancienne alliance + sacrifice de Jésus > sacrifices du Temple = Là où il y a eu pardon, on ne fait plus d’offrande pour le péché [10,18].

(Présentation extrêmement schématique, bien sûr)

-Ren- a écrit:et celle de Jacques (quand j'ai besoin d'un coup de pied au... )

Pour avoir travaillé dessus, je comprends :lol:

**-Ren-** Dim 20 Jan - 20:20

-Ahouva- a écrit:(Présentation extrêmement schématique, bien sûr)

Certes

**-Ahouva-** Dim 20 Jan - 20:24

Un dernier texte - l'Apocalypse d'Esdras - me vient à l'esprit : Tandis que je lui parlais, son visage brilla tout à coup et son aspect fut comme celui d'un éclair : je redoutai fort d'être près d'elle et mon âme fut effrayée. Qu'est-ce que cela? me dis-je. Elle poussa tout à coup un grand cri qui retentit d'une manière forte et effroyable, tellement que la terre trembla à sa voix. Quand je regardai, la femme n'était plus là ; il y avait une ville construite ; je vis l'immense emplacement de ses fondations (10,25-27).

:arrow:

http://remacle.org/bloodwolf/apocryphes/esdras.htm

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