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Sexualité... enfin un peu de bon sens...

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Sexualité... enfin un peu de bon sens...

Message  indian le Mar 19 Juin - 18:45


indian

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Re: Sexualité... enfin un peu de bon sens...

Message  Incognito le Mer 20 Juin - 19:13

Et en quoi cet imam fait-il du bon sens, Indian ?
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Re: Sexualité... enfin un peu de bon sens...

Message  indian le Mer 20 Juin - 19:21

Incognito a écrit:Et en quoi cet imam fait-il du bon sens, Indian ?

Car cet iman fait état de la science, de la biologie, de la nature humaine... et non de dogmes, doctrines et autres paradigmes.

indian

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Re: Sexualité... enfin un peu de bon sens...

Message  Incognito le Mer 20 Juin - 19:38

Isch.... Merci, ce sera tout pour moi. :x
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Re: Sexualité... enfin un peu de bon sens...

Message  indian le Mer 20 Juin - 19:39

Incognito a écrit:Isch.... Merci, ce sera tout pour moi. :x

es tu contre toutes relations homosexuelles?

moi personnellement je penses que pour donner la vie à un enfant, la relation sexuelle entre deux partenaire du meme sexe, homosexuelle, ne permet pas un tel objectif.

indian

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Re: Sexualité... enfin un peu de bon sens...

Message  Incognito le Mer 20 Juin - 19:50

En effet... la science, la biologie et la nature humaine de l'auteur a négligé ce petit détail et bien d'autres encore dans son choix de société.
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Re: Sexualité... enfin un peu de bon sens...

Message  Nicolasticot le Mer 20 Juin - 22:46

Incognito a écrit:ce petit détail et bien d'autres encore dans son choix de société.

J'avoue avoir lu l'article en diagonale pour l'instant, mais qu'est-ce qui serait mauvais, dangereux, dans son choix de société selon vous ?
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Re: Sexualité... enfin un peu de bon sens...

Message  indian le Mer 20 Juin - 23:41

Incognito a écrit:En effet... la science, la biologie et la nature humaine de l'auteur a négligé ce petit détail et bien d'autres encore dans son choix de société.

donc l'homosexualité ne devrait pas être pratiqué par ceux et celle qui désirent avoir des enfants?

Mais pour ceux et celles qui n'en veulent pas l’homosexualité pourrait être ok?

de quel choix de société parles tu?

:)

indian

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Re: Sexualité... enfin un peu de bon sens...

Message  simple passage le Jeu 21 Juin - 13:25


@Indian
Bonjour;

Il est difficile de parler de bon sens quand les explications sont fausses et les justifications faites sur mesure.

Cordialement

simple passage

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Re: Sexualité... enfin un peu de bon sens...

Message  Incognito le Jeu 21 Juin - 15:01

Nicolasticot a écrit:
Incognito a écrit:ce petit détail et bien d'autres encore dans son choix de société.

J'avoue avoir lu l'article en diagonale pour l'instant, mais qu'est-ce qui serait mauvais, dangereux, dans son choix de société selon vous ?

Oui, un simple coup d'oeil suffit pour constater que l'article nous sert un autre sempiternel repas de clichés réchauffé jusqu'à la lie. J'éviterai donc d'abonder dans le même sens en questionnant plutôt comment l'assouvissement du désir, du plaisir ou de la passion détermine le code moral de nos sociétés.

L’homosexualité peut être considérée comme une option individuelle avec un vécu spécifique au niveau des interactions sociales. Nous retrouvons des associations d'homosexuels dans des groupes structurés qui donnent une dimension communautaire à ce fait. Certains regroupements laïcs ou à référence religieuse créent également un style de vie homosexuel, voire une conscience collective gay. L'idée d’une sous-culture homosexuelle est donc plausible et cette micro-culture constitue un groupe enclavé.

Là où le cri d'alarme se fait sentir, c'est qu'après avoir bouleversé la morale, le mouvement LGBT revendique le chambardement du droit.

Mais ce n’est pas parce qu’on désire quelque chose qu’on y a droit. Il faudrait donc examiner ce que dit le code civil, et s’il faut le changer, au besoin. Mais ce ne sera pas sans conséquences, et ces conséquences les homos et leurs partisans n’en ont que faire apparemment, obnubilés qu’ils sont par l’épouvantail de l’homophobie et l’égalité des droits. Le droit est indépendant du désir; il est de l’ordre du social. On voit que l’enjeu s’éclaircit : il faut distinguer sexualité et social, désir et droit.

Après reste à savoir comment vont se jouer dans les familles de couples homosexuels les questions de filiation, de généalogie, de transmission, de différence des sexes, de toute puissance, d’altérité, de castration, de frustration, d’interdit, d’éthique, de désir, d’identification, de nomination et tout le toutim que la psychanalyse clinique nous a appris à reconnaître comme étant l’essence humaine.

L'article de l'imam en question passe sous silence cette dimension, Nicolasticot. À lui seul, il n'est pas mauvais ou dangereux, mais l'article de presse ne le dépeint pas comme un homme impartial dans son jugement et de ce fait, je ne lui accorde certainement pas mon vote de confiance. Il ressemble plutôt à une marionnette qui balaie du revers de la main le sens de la cité, tout coïncé qu'il est dans son idéologie personnelle. Et c'est là que le bât blesse.
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Re: Sexualité... enfin un peu de bon sens...

Message  indian le Jeu 21 Juin - 15:16

Incognito a écrit:
Oui, un simple coup d'oeil suffit pour constater que l'article nous sert un autre sempiternel repas de clichés réchauffé jusqu'à la lie. J'éviterai donc d'abonder dans le même sens en questionnant plutôt comment l'assouvissement du désir, du plaisir ou de la passion détermine le code moral de nos sociétés..

Salut :)


Ok, donc la question des relations entre être humains de même sexes, les transgenre, les LBGTQ+... est une question de désire sexuel, de passion pour le cul, d'assouvissement de nos pulsion?

et qu'est-ce qu'un code moral d'une société?
l'établissement des règles de conduite et de pratiques ou l'établissement de valeur en lien avec droits, libertés, responsabilité?

Les communautés et individus LBGTQ+, revendique tout comme les femmes et les hommes (ceux égalitaires) ... le droit à l'égalité face à la loi e la justice., pour toutes, tous et tous les autres genres.

Mais je comprends ce paradigmes culturel voulant limité la nature ''sexuelle ou de genre à une dualité homme-femme, c'est très ancré dans nos manieres de considérer le ''genre humain''

[quote=" '']Après reste à savoir comment vont se jouer dans les familles de couples homosexuels les questions de filiation, de généalogie, de transmission, de différence des sexes, de toute puissance, d’altérité, de castration, de frustration, d’interdit, d’éthique, de désir, d’identification, de nomination et tout le toutim que la psychanalyse clinique nous a appris à reconnaître comme étant l’essence humaine.[/quote]


voulons nous nous définir selon nos tradition judeo-chrétienne?

indian

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Re: Sexualité... enfin un peu de bon sens...

Message  Incognito le Jeu 21 Juin - 15:27

indian a écrit:
Incognito a écrit:En effet... la science, la biologie et la nature humaine de l'auteur a négligé ce petit détail et bien d'autres encore dans son choix de société.

donc l'homosexualité ne devrait pas être pratiqué par ceux et celle qui désirent avoir des enfants?

Mais pour ceux et celles qui n'en veulent pas l’homosexualité pourrait être ok?

de quel choix de société parles tu?

:)

J'ai répondu à ces questions dans mon précédent message mais s'il faut parler de choix de société, je prône que la majorité des citoyen(ne)s soit hétérosexuelle et monogame. Est-ce un jugement de valeurs de ma part ? Oui absolument. Parce qu'il ne s'agit pas ici de simple orientation sexuelle, Indian.

Prenons, à titre d'exemple, l'orientation bisexuelle ou transsexuelle. Le code civil doit-il souscrire au mariage avec plusieurs partenaires pour satisfaire aux revendications quant à l'égalité des droits ?


Dernière édition par Incognito le Jeu 21 Juin - 15:51, édité 1 fois
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Re: Sexualité... enfin un peu de bon sens...

Message  Incognito le Jeu 21 Juin - 15:42

Salut :)

Oiseau du paradis a écrit:Après reste à savoir comment vont se jouer dans les familles de couples homosexuels les questions de filiation, de généalogie, de transmission, de différence des sexes, de toute puissance, d’altérité, de castration, de frustration, d’interdit, d’éthique, de désir, d’identification, de nomination et tout le toutim que la psychanalyse clinique nous a appris à reconnaître comme étant l’essence humaine.

indian a écrit:voulons nous nous définir selon nos tradition judeo-chrétienne?

Je ne tomberai certainement pas dans l'étiquetage religieux. Je dirais plutôt que nous devons définir selon l'évolution des moeurs. Personnellement, je ne souhaite pas retourner au mode de vie tribal et/ou naturiste.
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Re: Sexualité... enfin un peu de bon sens...

Message  indian le Jeu 21 Juin - 15:50

Incognito a écrit: Je dirais plutôt que nous devons définir selon l'évolution des moeurs.

Personnellement, je ne souhaite pas retourner au mode de vie tribal et/ou naturiste.

Devrions- nous aussi nous définir selon l'évolution et la progression de la connaissance et de la science de la nature humaine?

indian

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Re: Sexualité... enfin un peu de bon sens...

Message  Incognito le Jeu 21 Juin - 15:55

Tout dépend de ce que tu entends par la science de la nature humaine. Par manque de spécificité, je ne peux me prononcer.
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Re: Sexualité... enfin un peu de bon sens...

Message  indian le Jeu 21 Juin - 16:43

Incognito a écrit:Tout dépend de ce que tu entends par la science de la nature humaine. Par manque de spécificité, je ne peux me prononcer.

Par exemple:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/01/

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/01/how-science-helps-us-understand-gender-identity/

indian

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Re: Sexualité... enfin un peu de bon sens...

Message  Incognito le Jeu 21 Juin - 17:52

Je n'ai pas accès au contenu, Indian. Il semble que je doive être abonnée pour ce faire. Si tu pouvais en faire un copié/collé, je pourrais le commenter.
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Re: Sexualité... enfin un peu de bon sens...

Message  indian le Jeu 21 Juin - 17:55

Spoiler:


Gender Revolution

How Science Is Helping Us Understand Gender









Freed from the binary of boy and girl, gender identity is a shifting landscape. Can science help us navigate?





















































Picture of twins trans sitting on bed

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When Massachusetts twins Caleb (left) and Emmie (right) Smith were born in 1998, it was hard to tell them apart. Today Emmie says, “When we were 12, I didn’t feel like a boy, but I didn’t know it was possible to be a girl.” At 17 Emmie came out as transgender, and recently she underwent gender-confirmation surgery. She plays down its significance: “I was no less of a woman before it, and I’m no more of one today.”










Picture of boy being measured

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Wearing a suit to the eighth-grade prom was an early step on Ray Craig’s journey toward being a “trans guy,” although he decided to wait until after graduating from his middle school in New York State to go public. Now everyone calls him by male pronouns. Ray’s father wasn’t surprised to learn Ray identified as a boy, but “I wasn’t sure if it would be a six-week phase or a four-year phase or a permanent thing.” Next step: thinking about hormone blockers that suppress puberty.










Picture of transgender girl on swing

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Oti, nine, was assigned male at birth but never felt that way. When she learned to speak, she didn’t say, “I feel like a girl,” but rather “I am a girl.” Oti brought her parents and three older siblings into the transgender activist community. “It’s been so great,” her father, David, says. “We’ve met incredible people who’ve gone through an incredible amount. She opened me. I’m her dad, but she is a leader for me.”




By Robin Marantz Henig


Photographs by Lynn Johnson





“ This story appears in the January 2017 issue of National Geographic magazine.


She has always felt more boyish than girlish.


From an early age, E, as she prefers to be called for this story, hated wearing dresses, liked basketball, skateboarding, video games. When we met in May in New York City at an end-of-the-year show for her high school speech team, E was wearing a tailored Brooks Brothers suit and a bow tie from her vast collection. With supershort red hair, a creamy complexion, and delicate features, the 14-year-old looked like a formally dressed, earthbound Peter Pan.


Later that evening E searched for the right label for her gender identity. “Transgender” didn’t quite fit, she told me. For one thing she was still using her birth name and still preferred being referred to as “she.” And while other trans kids often talk about how they’ve always known they were born in the “wrong” body, she said, “I just think I need to make alterations in the body I have, to make it feel like the body I need it to be.” By which she meant a body that doesn’t menstruate and has no breasts, with more defined facial contours and “a ginger beard.” Does that make E a trans guy? A girl who is, as she put it, “insanely androgynous”? Or just someone who rejects the trappings of traditional gender roles altogether?


You’ve probably heard a lot of stories like E’s recently. But that’s the whole point: She’s questioning her gender identity, rather than just accepting her hobbies and wardrobe choices as those of a tomboy, because we’re talking so much about transgender issues these days. These conversations have led to better head counts of transgender Americans, with a doubling, in just a decade, of adults officially tallied as transgender in national surveys; an increase in the number of people who are gender nonconforming, a broad category that didn’t even have a name a generation ago; a rise in the number of elementary school–age children questioning what gender they are; and a growing awareness of the extremely high risk for all of these people to be bullied, to be sexually assaulted, or to attempt suicide.








Picture of a child holding a picture of themselves

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Carlos, 12, holds a photo of himself as a girl. He is one of a small group of children born in the Dominican Republic with an enzyme deficiency. Their genitalia appear female at birth—then, with a surge of testosterone at puberty, they develop male genitals and mature into men. His uncle simply says Carlos “found his own rhythm.”








Picture of intersex child playing with ponies

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Born with an intersex chromosomal condition, Emma, 17, had incomplete male and female anatomy. She was raised as a girl, always aware of her special situation. “I’m comfortable with my differences,” she says. Shy and inventive, she spends hours among the clouds in her bedroom in Florida creating intricate adventures and videos using My Little Pony dolls.








Picture of child who identifies as nonbinary

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Jonathan, eight, has identified as both a boy and a girl at the same time since age two and a half. At California’s Bay Area Rainbow Day Camp, where children can safely express their gender identities, Jonathan tries on life as a unicorn.


The conversation continues, with evolving notions about what it means to be a woman or a man and the meanings of transgender, cisgender, gender nonconforming, genderqueer, agender, or any of the more than 50 terms Facebook offers users for their profiles. At the same time, scientists are uncovering new complexities in the biological understanding of sex.







Related Stories

A Glossary of Gender Terms  
In Their Words: How Children Are Affected by Gender Issues  
Why We Put a Transgender Girl on the Cover of National Geographic  



Many of us learned in high school biology that sex chromosomes determine a baby’s sex, full stop: XX means it’s a girl; XY means it’s a boy. But on occasion, XX and XY don’t tell the whole story.


Today we know that the various elements of what we consider “male” and “female” don’t always line up neatly, with all the XXs—complete with ovaries, vagina, estrogen, female gender identity, and feminine behavior—on one side and all the XYs—testes, penis, testosterone, male gender identity, and masculine behavior—on the other. It’s possible to be XX and mostly male in terms of anatomy, physiology, and psychology, just as it’s possible to be XY and mostly female.


Each embryo starts out with a pair of primitive organs, the proto-gonads, that develop into male or female gonads at about six to eight weeks. Sex differentiation is usually set in motion by a gene on the Y chromosome, the SRY gene, that makes the proto-gonads turn into testes. The testes then secrete testosterone and other male hormones (collectively called androgens), and the fetus develops a prostate, scrotum, and penis. Without the SRY gene, the proto-gonads become ovaries that secrete estrogen, and the fetus develops female anatomy (uterus, vagina, and clitoris).


But the SRY gene’s function isn’t always straightforward. The gene might be missing or dysfunctional, leading to an XY embryo that fails to develop male anatomy and is identified at birth as a girl. Or it might show up on the X chromosome, leading to an XX embryo that does develop male anatomy and is identified at birth as a boy.



A recent survey of a thousand millennials found that half of them think gender is a spectrum.  


Genetic variations can occur that are unrelated to the SRY gene, such as complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (CAIS), in which an XY embryo’s cells respond minimally, if at all, to the signals of male hormones. Even though the proto-gonads become testes and the fetus produces androgens, male genitals don’t develop. The baby looks female, with a clitoris and vagina, and in most cases will grow up feeling herself to be a girl.


Which is this baby, then? Is she the girl she believes herself to be? Or, because of her XY chromosomes—not to mention the testes in her abdomen—is she “really” male?


Georgiann Davis, 35, was born with CAIS but didn’t know about it until she stumbled upon that information in her medical records when she was nearly 20. No one had ever mentioned her XY status, even when doctors identified it when she was 13 and sent her for surgery at 17 to remove her undescended testes. Rather than reveal what the operation really was for, her parents agreed that the doctors would invent imaginary ovaries that were precancerous and had to be removed.


In other words, they chose to tell their daughter a lie about being at risk for cancer rather than the truth about being intersex—with reproductive anatomy and genetics that didn’t fit the strict definitions of female and male.


“Was having an intersex trait that horrible?” wrote Davis, now a sociologist at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, in Contesting Intersex: The Dubious Diagnosis. “I remember thinking I must be a real freak if even my parents hadn’t been able to tell me the truth.”








A Third Gender in Polynesia

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Picture of fa'afafine people in samoa





























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In Samoa, best friends 12-year-old Sandy (at left) and 10-year-old Mandy (in white T-shirt) do an impromptu dance with their friends and cousins. They identify as fa‘afafine, a gender other than boy or girl. Fa‘afafine children generally take on girls’ roles in play and family. As adults they remain anatomically male with feminine appearance and mannerisms. They help with household chores and childcare and choose men for sexual partners.


Trisha Tuiloma (at right) and a cousin (at left) help prepare the Sunday meal at Tuiloma’s mother’s house. Tuiloma is fa‘afafine, and she feels certain that her five-year-old nephew, lounging across her lap, is too.


Mandy, in her beloved high-heeled sandals, turns towels on a clothesline into a costume only she can imagine—off in her own world of daydreams.


Mandy, wearing one of her favorite dresses, adorns her hair with a matching yellow blossom.


Sandy (foreground) and Mandy take a break from the midday sun and heat, resting and whispering on a platform bed in Mandy’s home. The friends are dressed in lavalavas, traditional Samoan clothing worn by both women and men.



Another intersex trait occurs in an isolated region of the Dominican Republic; it is sometimes referred to disparagingly as guevedoce—“penis at 12.” It was first formally studied in the 1970s by Julianne Imperato-McGinley, an endocrinologist from the Weill Cornell Medical College in New York, who had heard about a cohort of these children in the village of Las Salinas. Imperato-McGinley knew that ordinarily, at around eight weeks gestational age, an enzyme in male embryos converts testosterone into the potent hormone DHT. When DHT is present, the embryonic structure called a tubercle grows into a penis; when it’s absent, the tubercle becomes a clitoris. Embryos with this condition, Imperato-McGinley revealed, lack the enzyme that converts testosterone to DHT, so they are born with genitals that appear female. They are raised as girls. Some think of themselves as typical girls; others sense that something is different, though they’re not sure what.


But the second phase of masculinization, which happens at puberty, requires no DHT, only a high level of testosterone, which these children produce at normal levels. They have a surge of it at about age 12, just as most boys do, and experience the changes that will turn them into men (although they’re generally infertile): Their voices deepen, muscles develop, facial and body hair appear. And in their case, what had at first seemed to be a clitoris grows into a penis.


When Imperato-McGinley first went to the Dominican Republic, she told me, newly sprouted males were suspect and had to prove themselves more emphatically than other boys did, with impromptu rituals involving blades, before they were accepted as real men. Today these children are generally identified at birth, since parents have learned to look more carefully at newborns’ genitals. But they are often raised as girls anyway.


Gender is an amalgamation of several elements: chromosomes (those X’s and Y’s), anatomy (internal sex organs and external genitals), hormones (relative levels of testosterone and estrogen), psychology (self-defined gender identity), and culture (socially defined gender behaviors). And sometimes people who are born with the chromosomes and genitals of one sex realize that they are transgender, meaning they have an internal gender identity that aligns with the opposite sex—or even, occasionally, with neither gender or with no gender at all.








Living Under Constant Threat

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Picture of two trans women in Jamaica







Picture of transgender woman in Kingston Jamaica showing scars from attacks






















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English (red hair) and Sasha (both street names) live with other transgender women in a storm-water diversion gully in Kingston, Jamaica. Many hide during the day to avoid being attacked and go out to look for sex work at night. Days after these photos were taken, two gangs doused everyone there and all their belongings with gasoline and set them on fire. Both English and Sasha were injured.

For five years Trina (her street name) has been “on the road”—a Jamaican phrase referring to the lifestyle of transgender people forced to leave home and do sex work to survive. Trina has been attacked with acid, knives, a machete, and a gun. She shows the scar from a bullet wound on her right hip.

“Lizzie” demonstrates how easy it is for potential attackers to break into the abandoned house in Kingston that she and other transgender women have taken over, cleaned up, and made somewhat habitable. The cross on the wall, drawn by “Strawberry,” the house leader, represents a hope for protection from those who would do them harm.

While Sasha identifies as a woman, she reserves her feminine expression for the time she spends doing sex work at night. Now 21, Sasha was outed in eighth grade when a schoolmate crawled under a bathroom-stall door to see her body. She was threatened and attacked by family and friends.


As transgender issues become the fare of daily news—Caitlyn Jenner’s announcement that she is a trans woman, legislators across the United States arguing about who gets to use which bathroom—scientists are making their own strides, applying a variety of perspectives to investigate what being transgender is all about.


In terms of biology, some scientists think it might be traced to the syncopated pacing of fetal development. “Sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place in the first two months of pregnancy,” wrote Dick Swaab, a researcher at the Netherlands Institute for Neuroscience in Amsterdam, “and sexual differentiation of the brain starts during the second half of pregnancy.” Genitals and brains are thus subjected to different environments of “hormones, nutrients, medication, and other chemical substances,” several weeks apart in the womb, that affect sexual differentiation.


This doesn’t mean there’s such a thing as a “male” or “female” brain, exactly. But at least a few brain characteristics, such as density of the gray matter or size of the hypothalamus, do tend to differ between genders. It turns out transgender people’s brains may more closely resemble brains of their self-identified gender than those of the gender assigned at birth. In one study, for example, Swaab and his colleagues found that in one region of the brain, transgender women, like other women, have fewer cells associated with the regulator hormone somatostatin than men. In another study scientists from Spain conducted brain scans on transgender men and found that their white matter was neither typically male nor typically female, but somewhere in between.


These studies have several problems. They are often small, involving as few as half a dozen transgender individuals. And they sometimes include people who already have started taking hormones to transition to the opposite gender, meaning that observed brain differences might be the result of, rather than the explanation for, a subject’s transgender identity.



Transgender people are at extremely high risk to be bullied, to be sexually assaulted, or to attempt suicide.


Still, one finding in transgender research has been robust: a connection between gender nonconformity and autism spectrum disorder (ASD). According to John Strang, a pediatric neuropsychologist with the Center for Autism Spectrum Disorders and the Gender and Sexuality Development Program at Children’s National Health System in Washington, D.C., children and adolescents on the autism spectrum are seven times more likely than other young people to be gender nonconforming. And, conversely, children and adolescents at gender clinics are six to 15 times more likely than other young people to have ASD.


Emily Brooks, 27, has autism and labels herself nonbinary, though she has kept her birth name. A slender person with a half-shaved head, turquoise streaks in her blond hair, and cute hipster glasses, Brooks recently finished a master’s degree at the City University of New York in disability studies and hopes eventually to create safer spaces for people who are gender nonconforming (which she defines quite broadly) and also have autism. Such people are battling both “ableism” and “transphobia,” she told me over soft drinks at a bar in midtown Manhattan. “And you can’t assume that a place that’s going to be respectful of one identity will be respectful of the other.”


As I sat with Brooks, talking about gender and autism, the bartender came over. “What else can I get you ladies?” he asked. Brooks bristled at being called a lady—evidence that her own search for a safe space is complicated not only by her autism but also by her rejection of the gender binary altogether.


There’s something to be said for the binary. The vast majority of people—more than 99 percent, it seems safe to say—put themselves at one end of the gender spectrum or the other. Being part of the gender binary simplifies the either-or of daily life: clothes shopping, sports teams, passports, the way a bartender asks for your order.





     























































































































































Identity, Sex, and Expression


GENDER IDENTITY




People are almost always designated male or female at birth based on genitalia. Gender includes components such as gender identity and expression, but not sexual orientation. Some cultures recognize genders that are neither man nor woman. Visit our glossary of terms.



Usually established by age three, this is a deeply felt sense of being a man, a woman, or a gender that is both, fluid, or neither. Cisgender peo­ple identify with the sex assigned at birth; transgender people don’t.


NONBINARY


WOMAN


MAN


Woman, man,

nonbinary,

agender




Identification

with boys

or men


Identification

with girls

or women


Identification with

both men and women or a gender that is neither


Adam’s apple (male)




BIOLOGICAL SEX


Sex determination exists on a spectrum, with genitals, chromosomes, gonads, and

hormones all playing a role. Most fit into the male or female category, but about one in a hundred may fall in between.


Breasts (female),

body hair (male)




INTERSEX


FEMALE


MALE


Sex

development

genes




XX chromosomes, ovaries, female

genitals, and female secondary sexual characteristics


Any mix of male and

female chromosomes,

testicular and ovarian

tissue, genitals, other

sexual characteristics


XY chromosomes, testes, male

genitals, male secondary sexual characteristics


Internal

and external

genitalia




GENDER EXPRESSION


People express gender through clothing, behavior, language, and other outward signs. Whether these attributes are labeled masculine or feminine varies among cultures.


ANDROGYNOUS


FEMININE


MASCULINE


Presentation

in ways a culture

associates with

being a woman


A combination of

masculine and feminine

traits or a nontraditional

gender expression


Presentation

in ways a culture

associates with

being a man





But people today—especially young people—are questioning not just the gender they were assigned at birth but also the gender binary itself. “I don’t relate to what people would say defines a girl or a boy,” Miley Cyrus told Out magazine in 2015, when she was 22, “and I think that’s what I had to understand: Being a girl isn’t what I hate; it’s the box that I get put into.”


Members of Cyrus’s generation are more likely than their parents to think of gender as nonbinary. A recent survey of a thousand millennials ages 18 to 34 found that half of them think “gender is a spectrum, and some people fall outside conventional categories.” And a healthy subset of that half would consider themselves to be nonbinary, according to the Human Rights Campaign. In 2012 the advocacy group polled 10,000 lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender teens ages 13 to 17 and found that 6 percent categorized themselves as “genderfluid,” “androgynous,” or some other term outside the binary box.


Young people trying to pinpoint their own place on the spectrum often choose a pronoun they’d like others to use when referring to them. Even if they don’t feel precisely like a girl or a boy, they might still use “he” or “she,” as Emily Brooks does. But many opt instead for a gender-neutral pronoun like “they” or an invented one like “zie.”


Charlie Spiegel, 17, tried using “they” for a while, but now prefers “he.” Charlie was assigned female at birth. But when he went through puberty, Charlie told me by phone from his home in Oakland, California, being called a girl started to feel unsettling. “You know how sometimes you get a pair of shoes online,” he explained, “and it arrives and the label says it should be the right size, and you’re trying it on and it’s clearly not the right size?” That’s how gender felt to Charlie: The girl label was supposed to fit, but it didn’t.


One day during freshman year, Charlie wandered into the school library and picked up I Am J by Cris Beam, a novel about a transgender boy. “Yep, that sounds like me,” Charlie thought as he read it. The revelation was terrifying but also clarifying, a way to start making those metaphoric mail-order shoes less uncomfortable.


A better fitting gender identity didn’t come along right away, though. Charlie—a member of the Youth Council at Gender Spectrum, a national support and advocacy group for transgender and nonbinary teens—went through a process of trial and error similar to that described by other gender-questioning teens. First he tried “butch lesbian,” then “genderfluid,” before settling on his current identity, “nonbinary trans guy.” It might sound almost like an oxymoron—aren’t “nonbinary” and “guy” mutually exclusive?—but the combination feels right to Charlie. He was heading off to college a few months after our conversation, getting ready to start taking testosterone.








Picture of transgender girl in doctor's office

View Images


When she was four, Trinity Xavier Skeye almost completely stopped talking, started chewing on her boy clothes, and said she wanted to cut off her penis. Her alarmed parents took her to a therapist, who asked them: “Do you want a happy little girl or a dead little boy?” Trinity’s mother, DeShanna Neal, is a fierce advocate for her child, who is now, at 12, on puberty blockers. Trinity is the first minor in Delaware to be covered for this treatment by Medicaid.


If more young people are coming out as nonbinary, that’s partly because the new awareness of the nonbinary option offers “a language to name the source of their experience,” therapist Jean Malpas said when we met last spring at the Manhattan offices of the Ackerman Institute for the Family, where he directs the Gender and Family Project.


But as more children say they’re nonbinary—or, as Malpas prefers, “gender expansive”—parents face new challenges. Take E, for example, who was still using female pronouns when we met in May, while struggling over where exactly to place herself on the gender spectrum. Her mother, Jane, was struggling too, trying to make it safe for E to be neither typically feminine nor typically masculine.


The speech team that had performed in New York City the night E and I met was getting ready to travel to a national competition in California, and Jane showed me the email she’d sent the coach to pave the way. E might be seen by others as male, Jane wrote, now that her hair was so short and her clothing so androgynous. She would probably use “both male and female bathrooms depending on what situation feels safest,” Jane informed the coach, and “will need to tell you when she is going to the restroom and what gender she plans on using.” I asked Jane, the night we met, where she’d place her daughter on the gender spectrum. “I think she wants to fall into a neutral space,” she replied.


A “neutral space” is a hard thing for a teenager to carve out: Biology has a habit of declaring itself eventually. Sometimes, though, biology can be put on hold for a while with puberty-blocking drugs that can buy time for gender-questioning children. If the child reaches age 16 and decides he or she is not transgender after all, the effects of puberty suppression are thought to be reversible: The child stops taking the blockers and matures in the birth sex. But for children who do want to transition at 16, having been on blockers might make it easier. They can start taking cross-sex hormones and go through puberty in the preferred gender—without having developed the secondary sex characteristics, such as breasts, body hair, or deep voices, that can be difficult to undo.


The Endocrine Society recommends blockers for adolescents diagnosed with gender dysphoria. Nonetheless, the blockers’ long-term impact on psychological development, brain growth, and bone mineral density are unknown—leading to some lively disagreement about using them on physically healthy teens.








Picture of transgender boy holding skateboard

View Images


Assigned female at birth, Hunter Keith, 17, has felt himself to be a boy since fifth grade. By seventh grade he told his friends; by eighth grade he told his parents. Two weeks before this photo was taken, his breasts were removed. Now he relishes skateboarding shirtless in his Michigan neighborhood.


More fraught than the question about puberty blockers is the one about whether too many young children, at too early an age, are being encouraged to socially transition in the first place.


Eric Vilain, a geneticist and pediatrician who directs the UCLA Center for Gender-Based Biology, says that children express many desires and fantasies in passing. What if saying “I wish I were a girl” is a feeling just as fleeting as wishing to be an astronaut, a monkey, a bird? When we spoke by phone last spring, he told me that most studies investigating young children who express discomfort with their birth gender suggest they are more likely to turn out to be cisgender (aligned with their birth-assigned gender) than trans—and relative to the general population, more of these kids will eventually identify as gay or bisexual.


“If a boy is doing things that are girl-like—he wants long hair, wants to try his mother’s shoes on, wants to wear a dress and play with dolls—then he’s saying to himself, ‘I’m doing girl things; therefore I must be a girl,’ ” Vilain said. But these preferences are gender expression, not gender identity. Vilain said he’d like parents to take a step back and remind the boy that he can do all sorts of things that girls do, but that doesn’t mean he is a girl.


At the Gender and Family Project, Jean Malpas said counselors “look for three things in children who express the wish to be a different gender”: that the wish be “persistent, consistent, and insistent.” And many children who come to his clinic meet the mark, he told me, even some five-year-olds. “They’ve been feeling this way for a long time, and they don’t look back.”


That was certainly the case for the daughter of Seattle writer Marlo Mack (the pseudonym she uses in her podcasts and blogs to protect her child’s identity). Mack’s child was identified at birth as a boy but by age three was already insisting he was a girl. Something went wrong in your tummy, he told his mother, begging to be put back inside for a do-over.


As Vilain might have instructed, Mack tried to broaden her child’s understanding of how a boy could behave. “I told my child over and over again that he could continue to be a boy and play with all the Barbies he wanted and wear whatever he liked: dresses, skirts, all the sparkles money could buy,” Mack said in her podcast, How to Be a Girl. “But my child said no, absolutely not. She was a girl.”


Finally, after a year of making both of them “miserable,” Mack let her four-year-old choose a girl’s name, start using female pronouns, and attend preschool as a girl. Almost instantly the gloom lifted. In a podcast that aired two years after that, Mack reported that her transgender daughter, age six, “loves being a girl probably more than any girl you’ve ever met.”



Young people who may not feel precisely like a boy or a girl might opt to refer to themselves with a gender-neutral pronoun like “they.”


Vilain alienates some transgender activists by saying that not every child’s “I wish I were a girl” needs to be encouraged. But he insists that he’s trying to think beyond gender stereotypes. “I am trying to advocate for a wide variety of gender expressions,” he wrote in a late-night email provoked by our phone conversation, “which can go from boys or men having long hair, loving dance and opera, wearing dresses if they want to, loving men, none of which is ‘making them girls’—or from girls shaving their heads, being pierced, wearing pants, loving physics, loving women, none of which is ‘making them boys.’ ”


This is where things get murky in the world of gender. Young people such as Mack’s daughter, or Charlie Spiegel of California, or E of New York City, must make biological decisions that will affect their health and happiness for the next 50 years. Yet these decisions run headlong into the maelstrom of fluctuating gender norms.


“I guess people would call me gender-questioning,” E said the second time we met, in June. “Is that a thing? It sounds like a thing.” But the “questioning” couldn’t go on forever, she knew, and she was already leaning toward “trans guy.” E had moved a few steps closer to that by September, asking people, including me, to use the pronoun “they” when referring to them. If E does eventually settle on a male identity, they feel it won’t be enough just to live as a man, changing pronouns (either sticking with “they” or switching to “he”) and changing their name (the leading candidate is the name “Hue”). It would mean becoming physically male too, which would involve taking testosterone. It was all a bit much, E told me. As their 15th birthday approached, they were giving themselves another year to figure it all out.


E’s thinking about where they fit on the gender spectrum takes the shape it does because E is a child of the 21st century, when concepts like transgender and gender nonconforming are in the air. But their options are still constrained by being raised in a Western culture, where gender remains, for the vast majority, an either-or. How different it might be if E lived where a formal role existed that was neither man nor woman but something in between—a role that constitutes another gender.


There are such places all over the world: South Asia (where a third gender is called hijra), Nigeria (yan daudu), Mexico (muxe), Samoa (fa‘afafine), Thailand (kathoey), Tonga (fakaleiti), and even the U.S., where third genders are found in Hawaii (mahu) and in some Native American peoples (two-spirit). The degree to which third genders are accepted varies, but the category usually includes anatomical males who behave in a feminine manner and are sexually attracted to men, and almost never to other third-gender individuals. More rarely, some third-gender people, such as the burrnesha of Albania or the fa‘afatama of Samoa, are anatomical females who live in a masculine manner.


I met a dozen or so fa‘afafine last summer, when I traveled to Samoa at the invitation of psychology professor Paul Vasey, who believes the Samoan fa‘afafine are among the most well-accepted third gender on Earth.










Picture of transgender girl jumping on trampoline

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Four years ago while watching a TV interview of a transgender girl, both Corey Maison (on trampoline) and mother Erica (seated) realized they are transgender. Corey, now 14, began transitioning from boy to girl soon after, but Erica kept her realization a secret in order to focus on Corey and her other children. Erica is now transitioning to Eric, an inconceivable option for him a generation ago. “The biggest step was coming out to my husband. I wouldn’t have done it without his support.”


Vasey, professor and research chair of psychology at the University of Lethbridge in Alberta, Canada, returns to Samoa so frequently that he has his own home, car, and social life there. One thing that especially intrigues him about third genders, in Samoa and elsewhere, is their ability to shed light on the “evolutionary paradox” of male same-sex attraction. Since fa‘afafine almost never have children of their own, why are they still able to pass along the genes associated with this trait? Without offspring, shouldn’t natural selection pretty much have wiped them out?


Being fa‘afafine runs in families, the same way being gay does, Vasey said. (He said it also occurs at about the same rate as male homosexuality in many Western countries, in about 3 percent of the population.) He introduced me to Jossie, 29, a tall, slim schoolteacher. Jossie lives in a village about an hour from the capital, Apia. She giggled at my questions, especially when I asked about guys. For Jossie, being fa‘afafine is also a family trait. Several fa‘afafine relatives listened to our conversation: Jossie’s uncle Andrew, a retired nurse who goes by the name Angie; her cousin Trisha Tuiloma, who is also Vasey’s research assistant; and Tuiloma’s five-year-old nephew.


“In this village they don’t really like the ‘fa‘fa’ style,” said Angie, who emerged from the house she shares with Jossie wearing nothing but a long skirt, called a lavalava, tied at the waist. Back in her 20s Angie had thought it might be nice “to have an operation to be a woman.” But now, at 57, she said she’s happy without surgery. She no longer feels discriminated against. Fellow church parishioners might criticize the way she and Jossie dress or behave, but “our families here, they understand.”


Vasey is now investigating two hypotheses that might explain the evolutionary paradox of male same-sex sexuality.


The first, the sexually antagonistic gene hypothesis, posits that genes for sexual attraction to males have different effects depending on the sex of the person carrying them: Instead of coming with a reproductive cost, as happens in males, the genes in females have a reproductive benefit—which means that the females with those genes should be more fertile. Vasey and his colleagues have found that the mothers and maternal grandmothers of fa‘afafine do have more babies than the mothers and grandmothers of straight Samoan men. But they haven’t found comparable evidence among paternal grandmothers—or among the aunts of fa‘afafine, which would come closest to definitive proof.


A second possibility is the kin selection hypothesis—the idea that the time and money that same-sex-attracted males devote to nurturing their nieces and nephews make it more likely that the nieces and nephews will pass some of their DNA down to the next generation. Indeed, among the fa‘afafine Vasey introduced me to, several have taken siblings’ children under their wing. Trisha Tuiloma, who is 42, uses the money she earns as Vasey’s research assistant to pay for food, schooling, treats, even electricity for eight nieces and nephews. And in his formal research Vasey has found that fa‘afafine are more likely to offer money, time, and emotional support to their siblings’ children—especially to their sisters’ youngest daughters—than are straight Samoan men or Samoan women.


One other point about gender identity became clear when I met Vasey’s longtime partner, Alatina Ioelu, a fa‘afafine Vasey met 13 summers ago. When Ioelu first drove up to my hotel, my understanding of what it means to be fa‘afafine started to unravel. Ioelu was much more masculine than the other fa‘afafine I’d met. Tall, broad-shouldered, with an open, handsome face, he favored the same clothing—cargo shorts and T-shirts—that Vasey wore. What did it mean for someone who reads as a man to belong to a third gender that implies heightened femininity?


Gradually it dawned on me, as the three of us chatted through dinner, that Ioelu’s identity as a fa‘afafine shows how deeply bound in culture gender itself is. Vasey and Ioelu plan to marry and retire in Canada someday. (Vasey is 50; Ioelu is 38.) “There we’d be perceived as an ordinary same-sex couple,” Vasey told me.


In other words, the gender classification of Ioelu would change, as if by magic, from fa‘afafine to gay man, just by crossing a border.

indian

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Re: Sexualité... enfin un peu de bon sens...

Message  Jans le Jeu 21 Juin - 18:06

Je ne comprends rien à vos débats:
Stats :
- 5 à 6% de la population est homosexuelle ;
- très peu créent une union : 4 à 5000 pour 300 000 mariages hétéros la première année ;
- la population est encore largement homophobe (en tout cas celle des lycées), et voit un danger inexistant statistiquement parlant.
- 70 à 75% des gays pensent qu'ils sont nés ainsi ; 30 à 25% disent que la biographie a fortement joué ; aucun ne dit qu'il a ensuite un autre choix. Dans ce cas, peut-on condamner qui n'a pas le choix ? non, sauf à dire qu'il est atteint d'une maladie. Mais la morale n'entre en jeu que s'il y a libre choix.
L'homosexualité est-elle une maladie ? non ; pour Freud, elle est une erreur dans le développement, c'est possible, en quoi cela fait-il de l'homosexuel un être différent de nous ?
Mon avis est que la bible condamne ceux qui, hétéros, se laisseraient aller par lubricité à "essayer" des relations homosexuelles. Pour le reste, l'homosexualité a toujours existé, c'est une composante de l'être humain, mineure sur le plan statistique. Je constate pour ma part qu'il y a parfois plus d'amour dans un couple homo qu'hétéro de mes connaissances. Réduire d'ailleurs le gay à un phénomène purement sexuel est manifestement une grossière erreur.
Les choix de l'Eglise catholique sont à mon avis erronés — mais compréhensibles si on creuse la doctrine psychanalytique, car on se défend toujours violemment de ce qui, à l'intérieur de soi, peut constituer un danger. C'est ce qu'on appelle une projection. En clair, quand on devient prêtre ou marin, ce n'est pas toujours pour l'amour de la mer ou l'attrait du spirituel, fuir la femme est parfois la motivation inconsciente . Voir Pierre Loti.
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Re: Sexualité... enfin un peu de bon sens...

Message  Jans le Jeu 21 Juin - 18:06

Je ne comprends rien à vos débats:
Stats :
- 5 à 6% de la population est homosexuelle ;
- très peu créent une union : 4 à 5000 pour 300 000 mariages hétéros la première année ;
- la population est encore largement homophobe (en tout cas celle des lycées), et voit un danger inexistant statistiquement parlant.
- 70 à 75% des gays pensent qu'ils sont nés ainsi ; 30 à 25% disent que la biographie a fortement joué ; aucun ne dit qu'il a ensuite un autre choix. Dans ce cas, peut-on condamner qui n'a pas le choix ? non, sauf à dire qu'il est atteint d'une maladie. Mais la morale n'entre en jeu que s'il y a libre choix.
L'homosexualité est-elle une maladie ? non ; pour Freud, elle est une erreur dans le développement, c'est possible, en quoi cela fait-il de l'homosexuel un être différent de nous ?
Mon avis est que la bible condamne ceux qui, hétéros, se laisseraient aller par lubricité à "essayer" des relations homosexuelles. Pour le reste, l'homosexualité a toujours existé, c'est une composante de l'être humain, mineure sur le plan statistique. Je constate pour ma part qu'il y a parfois plus d'amour dans un couple homo qu'hétéro de mes connaissances. Réduire d'ailleurs le gay à un phénomène purement sexuel est manifestement une grossière erreur.
Les choix de l'Eglise catholique sont à mon avis erronés — mais compréhensibles si on creuse la doctrine psychanalytique, car on se défend toujours violemment de ce qui, à l'intérieur de soi, peut constituer un danger. C'est ce qu'on appelle une projection. En clair, quand on devient prêtre ou marin, ce n'est pas toujours pour l'amour de la mer ou l'attrait du spirituel, fuir la femme est parfois la motivation inconsciente . Voir Pierre Loti.
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Re: Sexualité... enfin un peu de bon sens...

Message  indian le Jeu 21 Juin - 18:10

http://www.who.int/hiv/pub/msm/un-statement-lgbti/fr/

Ajoutons cette dernière déclaration de l'OMS:

Les entités des Nations Unies appellent les États à agir d’urgence pour mettre fin à la violence et à la discrimination à l’égard des personnes lesbiennes, gays, bisexuelles, transgenres et intersexes (LGBTI) qu’il s’agisse d’adultes, d’adolescents ou d’enfants

Toute personne a un droit égal à une vie sans violence, persécution, discrimination ou stigmatisation. Le droit international des droits de l’homme établit des obligations juridiques selon lesquelles les États sont tenus de veiller à ce que chacun, sans distinction, puisse jouir de ces droits. Tout en saluant les efforts croissants dans de nombreux pays pour protéger les droits des personnes LGBTI1, nous restons très préoccupés par le fait que partout dans le monde des millions de personnes LGBTI, ou perçues comme telles, et leurs familles font face à des violations généralisées des droits de l’homme. Cela est un motif d’inquiétude — et d’action.

Le non-respect des droits des personnes LGBTI et l’absence de protections contre les abus dont elles sont victimes, notamment la violence et les lois et pratiques discriminatoires, constituent des violations graves du droit international des droits de l’homme qui ont un impact profond sur la société.

Cela contribue à accroître leur vulnérabilité aux problèmes de santé, y compris l’infection par le VIH, l’exclusion sociale et économique, fragilise les familles et les communautés, et a un impact négatif sur la croissance économique, le travail décent et les progrès vers la réalisation des futurs Objectifs de développement durable.

Selon le droit international, les États sont responsables au premier chef de la protection de tous contre la discrimination et la violence. Ces violations nécessitent donc une réponse urgente des gouvernements, des parlements, des systèmes judiciaires et des institutions nationales des droits de l’homme. Les dirigeants communautaires, religieux et politiques, les organisations de travailleurs, le secteur privé, les prestataires de santé, les organisations de la société civile et les médias ont également un rôle important à jouer.

1 Même cette déclaration se réfère aux personnes lesbiennes, gays, bisexuelles, transgenres et intersexes, elle doit également être comprise comme s’appliquant aux autres personnes victimes de violence et de discrimination sur la base de leur orientation sexuelle, leur identité de genre et leurs caractères sexuels, réels ou supposés, y compris dans le cas où elles s’identifient avec d’autres termes.


____________

Elles peuvent également être confrontées à la violence en milieu médical, y compris sous forme
de soi-disant « thérapies » nocives et contraires à l’éthique visant à modifier l’orientation sexuelle, de stérilisation forcée ouobligatoire, d’examens génitaux ou anaux forcés, et d’interventions chirurgicales ou traitements non justifiés sur des enfants intersexes sans leur consentement.


L'orientation sexuelle, le genre, l'identité...n'est pas une maladie, mais un état d'être :jap:

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Re: Sexualité... enfin un peu de bon sens...

Message  indian le Jeu 21 Juin - 18:12

Jans a écrit:
Mon avis est que la bible condamne ceux qui, hétéros, se laisseraient aller par lubricité à "essayer" des relations homosexuelles.


Bonjour Jans
Je suis en accord avec presque chacune de vos affirmations.

mais...
Pourriez vous nous dire où dans la Bible peut on lire une telle condamnation?
Faites vous référence à Loth, sa femme, Sodome et Gomorrhe?

Merci
David

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Re: Sexualité... enfin un peu de bon sens...

Message  Jans le Jeu 21 Juin - 18:44

Oui, c'est dans l'AT, impossible de vous dire le détail. Il y a eu une dérive grave et dangereuse dans l'Eglise catholique concernant le corps, la chair, la sexualité, la vie, le plaisir, la douleur, la souffrance... J'en suis aujourd'hui stupéfait. La création et la créature de Dieu n'ont rien de sale, le plaisir dans l'amour est fabuleux, et l'injonction mise comme impératif catégorique (bien que sorti assez bêtement de tout contexte) : "croissez et multipliez-vous !" totalement absurde dans des sociétés modernes. le Vatican semble ignorer que dans 90% des cas, les catholiques qui font l'amour ne vont rien procréer. Que penser du Vatican, qui en 2018 considère encore que la pilule est à bannir ?
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Re: Sexualité... enfin un peu de bon sens...

Message  indian le Jeu 21 Juin - 18:52

Jans a écrit:Oui, c'est dans l'AT,...Que penser du Vatican, qui en 2018 considère encore que la pilule est à bannir ?

Le Vatican ne me concerne plus. Désolé.
Mais je penses qu'il évolue.


Au sujet de l'AT et de Sodome et Gomorrhe, l'iman dans le lien ici haut en fait état ainsi mais via sa connaissance du Qur'an :

Le Coran ne semble pas condamner l'attirance homosexuelle en tant que telle – le mot « homosexualité » n'y étant inscrit nulle part –, mais il condamne la « pratique des hommes de Loth », à savoir le peuple des cités de Sodome et Gomorrhe, qui s’étaient rendus coupables de sodomie.

Le mot « sodomie » n'y est jamais employé non plus. Le péché de Sodome n'était pas la sodomie, mais le viol rituel. L'historien antique Hérodote (484-420 avant notre ère) décrivait les pratiques – considérées comme barbares à son époque – des tribus de la plaine mésopotamienne. À Sodome et à Gomorrhe, pour être un fils ou une fille de bonne famille, il fallait faire don de sa virginité au temple, offrir sa semence quand on était un homme, sa virginité quand on était une femme. Cette représentation sadomasochiste de la sexualité est condamnée par le Coran et la Bible. Cela n'a rien à voir avec le fait que des personnes LGBT demandent à ce que leur mariage, éventuellement leur filiation, soit reconnus par la République.

Aujourd'hui, malgré cela, l'Arabie saoudite exporte dans le monde entier des exemplaires du Coran traduits dans tous les langues, avec entre parenthèses, suite à la citation de Sodome et Gomorrhe : « la cité des homosexuels ». Ils font donc exactement ce que le Coran interdit, c'est-à-dire travestir les mots du Coran.


Peut être que le Vatican a aussi travesti les mots de la Bible?

indian

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Re: Sexualité... enfin un peu de bon sens...

Message  Incognito le Jeu 21 Juin - 20:50

Les textes fournis sous spoiler ne m'informent pas sur la nature scientifique de l'homosexualité, Indian, et ce qu'il m'est donné de lire semble un pot-pourri de témoignages isolés. Je ne les commenterai donc pas. Mais puisque le sujet se prête aux revendications à l'encontre de la discrimination et de la violence, voici un article sur la dictature homosexuelle et LGBT qui me porte à réflexion. Y'aurait-il deux poids, deux mesures entre le discours politique de l'OMS et les agissements de la Gay-Pride ?


Nous avons mis des siècles à faire respecter la sphère privée ; à faire de la « chambre » un sanctuaire inviolable, à interdire l’entrée de la sphère intime au pouvoir ou au législateur ou au prêtre. Cette liberté fondamentale qui repose sur l’opposition public-privé est détruite par les adeptes de la Gay-pride. La relation intime, qu’elle soit hétérosexuelle ou homosexuelle, est ici totalement désacralisée et peut se donner à voir sans retenue. Le temple intime de chacun est profané.

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Re: Sexualité... enfin un peu de bon sens...

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